tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-282272072024-03-06T22:49:50.149-05:00THE APOLOGETIC FRONTTeaching. Equipping. DefendingMike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.comBlogger487125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-38151365298693633692012-04-28T20:56:00.002-04:002012-04-30T05:46:08.059-04:00UPDATEHopefully this post won't be too long, but I just wanted to share a few things as it relates to this site as well as my personal life. First, I'm no longer going to be posting on this site. I have a lot of ideas and Blogger simply cannot accommodate to these ideas. I chose Wordpress because of its vast array of options. Though its still in the works, you can view it <a href="http://apologeticfront.com/">HERE</a>. I canceled the domain here and the new one will simply be apologeticfront.com. Once I get finished setting everything up, I hope to begin regular blogging once again. <br />
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What new ideas do I have? For the longest time, i've wanted to start a podcast. While everyone seems to have one these days, the fact that I have somewhat of an audience shows that some might be interested in listening to me rather than reading. Personally, I simply have little time for reading blogs anymore and i'm sure others can relate. Its so much easier to plug up my mic and yap away. I don't know what the podcast will be like, but it will probably be very informal and involve very little production. We'll see what happens. <br />
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Next, i'm very excited to announce that i'm now a student at <a href="http://www.rts.edu/atlanta/">REFORMED THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY ATLANTA</a>. This is something i've been wanting to do for a very long time but always had other priorities in the way. To make a long story short, God has provided for me in some profound ways. Just a year ago I was touring the country in my band, and now I work a full time corporate job and completely self-sufficient financially (as the Lord has provided). And being single as well, seminary was a no brainer. So why am I going to seminary? To be better used for the Kingdom. I don't have any pastoral ambitions <i>per se </i>as i'm more interested in academics. We'll see what happens from here. <br />
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Last, <a href="http://CARM/">carm.org</a> has recruited me as a writer for their site. I'm very excited for this opportunity as CARM is one of the largest Christian apologetic websites out there. While I don't endorse everything that CARM does, I share in their primary vision to equip and defend the Christian faith. But this is an outlet that I simply couldn't have with my current writings. CARM has thousands of visitors a day and this is a chance for me to make a big impact with my writings. I'll be linking to my articles as they get posted. My first such article can be found <a href="http://carm.org/why-1914-important-jehovahs-witnesses">HERE</a> and you can read my CARM bio <a href="http://carm.org/mike-felker">HERE</a>. My primary focus with CARM is to develop their <a href="http://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses">JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SECTION</a>. <br />
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Other than that, please go to apologeticfront.com and <a href="feed://apologeticfront.com/feed/">SUBSCRIBE</a>!Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-29382913833822014782012-04-07T13:51:00.000-04:002012-04-07T13:51:22.900-04:00"Full" debate with a Jehovah's Witness "Letusreason1234" on the two class theologyUnfortunately, Letsureason <a href="http://www.youtube.com/letusreason1234">backed out</a> of the debate half way through without any notice. I was really hoping we'd make it through to the end, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a JW would act this way when 99.9 percent of them are nameless and faceless on the internet. Anyway, i've posted what we did of the debate, which I hope to be useful to some people. If you watch or listen until the end, i'll provide a short post-debate commentary. <br />
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You can watch the debate <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL7q4T-Xo0s&list=UUyiebV4AhHp0mneWgLzr_uQ&index=1&feature=plcp">HERE</a><br />
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You can listen to the debate <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7264672/2%20Class%20Theology%20debate%20with%20Letusreason.mp3">HERE</a>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-67618854294038899032012-03-24T12:46:00.000-04:002012-03-24T12:46:05.975-04:00A helpful evangelism tip for engaging MormonsAnyone who engages Mormons will understand how difficult it can be. Part of the problem is in getting them to admit how radically different their religion is from Christianity. While they are willing to admit a "difference," it is difficult to emphasize the contrast. In some respects, they will try to make it sound as if they are just like you, but with some important "restored" elements like the book of Mormon. <div>
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Whether you are talking about monotheism, salvation by faith alone, and other <i>contrasting</i> doctrines to Mormonism; Mormon missionaries may say, "Oh, we believe that too." It may not be inaccurate to posit the fact that postmodernism has seeped into the fabric of Mormonism. As a result, you may not hear a statement of, "our church is right and your's is wrong." But this is exactly what you want them to say and agree with. Such will allow for everyone's cards to be on the table. </div>
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With that said, Keith Walker has posted a very helpful <a href="http://www.evidenceministries.org/2012/03/mormonism%E2%80%99s-hypocritical-attack/">ARTICLE</a>. The article displays a list of quotations from Mormon sources whereby Christianity and Mormonism are starkly contrasted. Here is what I would recommend doing the next time you engage a Mormon; start the conversation off by showing them these quotations and getting them to admit that, for example, "all of [your] creeds are an abomination, and [you] are corrupt." This way, you'll be able to ask the question, "Please show me which beliefs I have that are an abomination and let's see what the Scriptures say about them." </div>
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Many of these Mormon sources are easily obtainable. It would prove useful to have them ready whenever a Mormon missionary knocks on your door. It will allow you to cut right to the chase and perhaps open the door to present the gospel. </div>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-59275402757231486942012-03-10T10:52:00.001-05:002012-03-10T10:52:35.622-05:00Where can I get a Watchtower CD Library?If you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses or at least on your way to becoming one, <i>you will not be able to obtain the CD Library from them</i>. The Watchtower CD Library is an excellent tool for those interested in researching the Jehovah's Witnesses. It contains almost the full array of Watchtower publications dating back to the 1950's with a very good search engine and other features. <br />
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The problem is, most do not know where to get a Watchtower CD. While some may have moral or legal reservations in obtaining this resource (there is a disclaimer at the beginning of the installation process), each person must decide for themselves as to whether they should continue in installing the CD on their computer. <br />
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But for those interested, the CD is available for purchase <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Watch-Tower-Watchtower-Library-English/dp/B00186S91M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1331394043&sr=8-2">HERE</a>.<br />
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***disclaimer***<br />
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For any JW's that desire to provide a moral lecture in the comments, don't bother, as I will not be responding and will have your comments deleted.Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-6489471318532345542012-02-04T09:39:00.000-05:002012-02-04T09:40:43.172-05:00Some helpful "techy" stuff for apologistsLike some of you I know, I am a person who is always looking for ways to maximize ways to learn. Recently, I started listening to all my podcasts on double speed because I simply was not able to keep up. I'm not sure all ipods have this option, but iphone certainly does and most likely the newer ipod touches. At first, this was difficult. But it didn't take long for me to get very used to it. Now i'm able to keep up in listening to about 10 different podcasts weekly. <br />
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Another was a flashcard app that helped me to start learning Greek. I think the app is just called "flashcards" and costs around $2.99 in the app store. This app is great because it keeps up with what you know really well, sort of well, and not well at all. Its basically a flashcard quiz system. On my lunch breaks i'm able to spend up to 20 minutes daily going through my Greek vocabulary, grammar rules, and translation exercises. If anyone wants to learn Greek and has an iphone/ipod/ipad, give me a buzz and i'll show you what you'll need to do. If I can do it, you can do it!<br />
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Last, I discovered a really cool app in the Mac app store (not itunes store). Its called <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=speak%20it!%20app&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CD8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fitunes.apple.com%2Fus%2Fapp%2Fspeak-it!-text-to-speech%2Fid308629295%3Fmt%3D8&ei=u0EtT-qID8Obtwen0d3zDw&usg=AFQjCNFlZa3Zrpd-fZ0B1WxvI0RkD7334w&sig2=IwIHeVs-30N9Hdd6062VsA">Speak It!</a>. Its $4.99 but it is able to convert any text into speech. And not only that, but it can convert it to an audio file so you can play it on your ipod or whatever. This has been helpful for me because i'm subscribing to too many blogs and downloading too many pdf article that I simply don't have time to read. In addition, its cutting into my time that I could be using to read books. So what I do now is I copy and paste whatever blog article or pdf that i'm interested in into the "Speak it!" app and convert to an audio file. The only downside is, you can only convert to an audio file with a maximum of 1,000 words at a time. But this is fairly simple to do, since most word processing programs give you word counts. <br />
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Feel free to leave in the comments any ideas, advise, or whatever it is you do to maximize your learning in the area of theology, apologetics, etc.Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-4663317328367958012012-01-27T23:13:00.001-05:002012-01-27T23:13:58.796-05:001st rebuttal in my debate with Letusreason1234See Letusreason1234's opening statement <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3_A4k7-QLg&feature=watch_response">HERE</a>. <br />
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This is my first rebuttal in our debate:<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AnaSq7wRGmw" width="560"></iframe>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-61295481920501067212012-01-20T19:24:00.000-05:002012-01-20T19:24:36.267-05:00From the brilliant atheistic mind of Mr. LoftusMr. Loftus <a href="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2012/01/why-do-christians-disagree.html">WRITES</a><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #003366; font-family: Trebuchet, 'Trebuchet MS', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 17px;">Why is it Christians cannot agree to the point where they have condemned each other to hell and/or slaughtered each other because of doctrinal differences that other Christians don't think are essential for salvation? My answer is that Christianity is man made, and as such, doctrinal differences are due to different human ways of understanding the Bible. There is no divine mind behind the Bible, otherwise God should have communicated his will much better than he supposedly did. That's the major reason why there is no doctrinal Christian unity. These different doctrinal understandings continue to be used by denominational leaders to differentiate between Christianities for financial gain and power. Christian, what's your answer?</span></blockquote>
That does it. I'm giving up Christianity. Brilliant objection, Mr. Loftus...just brilliant.<br />
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But wait. Everyone disagrees with each other's worldview...so i'll give up my worldview! Or maybe just the concept of "worldview" altogether, since no one can agree. But then again, many disagree with each other's view of reality. Perhaps reality isn't real? So i'll give up epistemology too! And logic, who knows anything about that?<br />
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Mr. Loftus, the universe just got a little bit more intelligent because of your objection, and I applaud you for bringing the universe such honor and glory. Praise science, and praise atheism.Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com42tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-23697812253598116252012-01-14T18:58:00.001-05:002012-01-14T18:59:15.559-05:00Debate with Letusreason1234: My opening statementAs <a href="http://www.theapologeticfront.com/2011/12/upcoming-debate-with-jehovahs-witness.html">mentioned</a> over a month ago, I will be debating a JW who goes by the nick, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/letusreason1234">Letusreason1234</a>. However, we couldn't seem to agree on the method by which we'd approach this debate so we decided to do this on YouTube via video responses. Assuming the full debate will be completed, i'll make an audio download as well as a full length video of the debate. Here is my opening:<br />
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VwzB7zOLOTo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-5636478749559693782011-12-26T08:51:00.000-05:002011-12-26T08:51:41.218-05:00Antitheism Presupposes Theism<a href="http://proginosko.wordpress.com/2011/12/24/antitheism-presupposes-theism-and-so-does-every-other-ism/">THIS</a> is a very interesting post from <a href="http://www.proginosko.com/about.html">JAMES ANDERSON</a> which appears to be an elaboration from <a href="http://www.proginosko.com/docs/The_Lord_of_Non-Contradiction.pdf">THIS PAPER</a>, which was recently released for public viewing. Those interested in the Transcendental Argument for God's existence and possibly even the Ontological Argument will likely find this post as helpful as I did.Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-27807951146089179732011-12-24T14:21:00.000-05:002011-12-24T14:21:06.085-05:00Review of the March 2012 Watchtower Study EditionIn this review, I focus primarily on Romans 8 and a unique interpretation provided by the Watchtower as it relates to their "two class" theology. I also discuss some other elements of interest in the same article. <br />
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You can watch the review <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=672WuEjSDno&feature=youtu.be">HERE</a><br />
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You can listen to the review <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7264672/March2012WTreview.mp3">HERE</a><br />
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You can download the March 2012 Watchtower Study Edition <a href="http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/w_E_20120315.pdf">HERE</a><br />
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On a side note, i'm very much considering doing a podcast in the near future. The reason being, i'm realizing that far more people are out there who are just like me with little time to read and a lot of time to listen. I've got the necessary equipment to do it, but my audio acoustics (as you can tell) are pretty awful in my current living situation. But that is going to change soon, Lord willing (so long as my next place doesn't have hard wood floors and thin walls!). <br />
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Anyway, doing reviews of Watchtowers like this might make for a good podcast in addition to debates and dialogues. I'm just brainstorming out loud right now, so we'll see what happens.Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-20322809960407286522011-12-21T20:34:00.002-05:002011-12-21T20:35:05.773-05:00Debate on "hell" now available!From the <a href="http://theopologetics.blogspot.com/">Theopologetics Blog</a>:<br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://theopologetics.podbean.com/2011/12/21/episode-70-perish-in-fire/" style="color: #956839; text-decoration: underline;">Episode 70</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> and </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://theopologetics.podbean.com/2011/12/21/episode-71-forever-the-pain/" style="color: #956839; text-decoration: underline;">Episode 71</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">of the Theopologetics Podcast is now available! Debate topic: "The punishment of the damned will actually be torment forever and ever." Hiram Diaz, creator of the</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.involvingreasons.tk/" style="color: #473624; text-decoration: underline;">Involuted Speculations</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">blog and contributor at</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.grassrootsapologetics.org/" style="color: #473624; text-decoration: underline;">Grassroots Apologetics</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">, affirms. Chris Date, host of the</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://theopologetics.podbean.com/" style="color: #473624; text-decoration: underline;">Theopologetics Podcast</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">, denies. Moderated by Mike Felker of</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.theapologeticfront.com/" style="color: #473624; text-decoration: underline;">The Apologetic Front</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">. </span></blockquote>
Strangely, I had only received audience questions from the annihilationist perspective. Therefore, I had to come up with the "audience questions" myself in challenging annihilationism. Anyway, I hope you all enjoy this interaction and feel free to leave your comments!Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-52935498151789023652011-12-15T20:36:00.001-05:002011-12-15T20:36:36.650-05:00What do you believe about hell?In less than a week i'll be moderating a <a href="http://theopologetics.blogspot.com/2011/10/theopologetics-debate-conditionalism.html">DEBATE</a> on hell and I could really use some help from my readers. At the end of the debate, there will be a Q&A period where i'll be asking each participant questions "from the audience." That's you. If you object to the traditional understanding of hell (conscious torment, etc.) or the conditionalist perspective (annihilationism, conditional punishment, etc.), I need questions from both sides. <br />
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If you would, please <a href="mailto:mike@theapologeticfront.com">EMAIL</a> your questions to me and perhaps you'll hear them read and answered in the debate! <br />
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I'm very excited to have been selected to moderate and I will certainly be posting the debate here on the blog once its uploaded. Who knows, this may spark some interest on my part to delve deeper into this issue and refine my own views.Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-88994372287162388412011-12-09T09:52:00.001-05:002011-12-09T10:27:22.398-05:00Are the Watchtower's predictions "hollow?"Sometimes I wonder if the Governing Body remembers their own history. But then again, i've come to expect them to be less than honest, which is quite unfortunate. Though there might be some who would love nothing more than to have a "gotcha" moment in pointing out yet another less-than-honest statement by the Governing Body, I would much rather them demonstrate some humility. <br />
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Given the recent false prediction by Harold Camping, I was actually hoping the Governing Body would leave this one alone. Otherwise, it would not be the first time they have applied a double standard in accusing others of making false predictions that didn't come to pass. <br />
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However, in the <a href="http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_E_20120201.pdf">February 1, 2011 Watchtower</a> on p. 25, the leaders in Brooklyn had this to say,<br />
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First of all, this statement is not completely accurate regarding Camping's prediction. Like the Watchtower's pre-1914 predictions, Camping's was based upon his faulty interpretation of the Scriptures. And as far as I know, Camping didn't claim any type of non-biblical divine revelation that God had personally given to him. In fact, any claims to authority Camping would have made could only pale in comparison to what the <i>Watchtower</i> had and continues to claim for themselves. The point is, the reader of the Watchtower may have gotten the impression that Camping just made up everything or had some type of inspired revelation from God. <br />
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Second, the prediction made by Camping is described as "hollow." I agree. The problem is, where did the <i>Watchtower</i> ever describe their own predictions in this manner? At the very least, did the Watchtower ever <i>apologize</i> for their false predictions which resulted in a severe disappointment for many? Consider only a few,<br />
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“The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in
the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914.” –<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">The Watchtower</i> July 15, 1924 p. 211</div>
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“Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the
return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly
those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human
perfection.” –<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Millions Now Living will
Never Die </i> 1920, p. 90 </blockquote>
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If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact
that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because
all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt
system is due to end in a few years. -<i>Awake!</i> 1969 5/22 p. 15</blockquote>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;">Shortly, within our twentieth century, the “battle in the day
of Jehovah” will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. -<i>The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah</i> p. 216</span></blockquote>
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The purpose of Awake! is stated clearly on page 4 of
each issue: “This magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a
peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914
passes away.” Certainly such a magazine deserves as wide a distribution as
possible in our house-to-house ministry! -<i>Kingdom Ministry </i>10/93 p. 8</blockquote>
Could these false predictions be described as anything short of "hollow?" If so, then where were they ever appropriately described as such? If they weren't, then would such neglect be what one would expect from "God's organization?"<br />
<br />
This is information that I would encourage some to share with their JW friends and family. Do so with caution, humility, and love. But never do so at the expense of the gospel and pointing to Christ as "the way, the truth, and the life." (John 14:6) Remember, your goal is not to create an ex-JW, but a Christ follower.Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-75914113930947285612011-12-02T18:55:00.001-05:002011-12-08T13:37:43.555-05:00Upcoming Debate with a Jehovah's WitnessMy JW friend <a href="http://www.youtube.com/letusreason1234">Letusreason1234</a> has recently agreed to a formal debate with me. The debate will be formulated a bit differently than most but the outcome will be the same. That is, we will be exchanging our videos back and forth so that both sides can articulate the best possible arguments without being put on the spot. However, there will be live cross examination. But I think this style of debate will be a good example for those who don't think they can debate because they aren't good debaters. Hopefully, the full debate will be posted by the end of the month. It will be in both video and audio form. The proposition and format will go as follows:<br />
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
<b>Proposition: There is only one class of Christians with one eternal hope</b></div>
<div>
<b><br /></b></div>
<div>
<b>Affirmative: Mike Felker</b></div>
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<b>Negative: Letusreason1234</b><br />
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<b>Opening Statements </b>(20 minutes each)</div>
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<b>Rebuttals </b>(12 minutes each)</div>
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<b>Rebuttals </b>(8 minutes each)</div>
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<b>Cross examination round 1 </b>(7 minutes each)</div>
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<b>Cross examination round 2 </b>(7 minutes each)</div>
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<b>Rebuttals </b>(10 minutes each)</div>
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<b>Closing Statements </b>(7 minutes each)</div>
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<b>
</b></div>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01636380476793694320noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-88101511012656934442011-11-27T12:34:00.001-05:002011-11-27T12:43:45.605-05:002nd discussion with JW "Letusreason1234" on the eternal hope of ChristiansLike our <a href="http://www.theapologeticfront.com/2011/11/discussion-with-jw-on-eternal-hope-of.html">FIRST DISCUSSION</a>, this one will continue along the same lines in contrasting the Jehovah's Witness view with what I believe to be the biblical view of all Christians living forever on the new earth. <br />
<br />
You can watch the discussion <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr507rhL2s4&feature=channel_video_title">HERE</a><br />
<br />
You can listen to the discussion <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7264672/2nd%20discussion%20Letusreason1234%20on%20Eternal%20Hope%20of%20Christians.mp3">HERE</a>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-29233123528199351032011-11-24T08:24:00.001-05:002011-11-24T08:24:39.139-05:00What is the proper view of the Watchtower and its literature?<br />
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In the following <i>Watchtower</i> article, two viewpoints are contrasted. The first is the <i>improper</i> view,</div>
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<b>***</b> <b>w64</b> <b>9/15</b> <b>p.</b> <b>574</b> <b>Experiencing</b> <b>Jehovah’s</b> <b>Love</b> <b>***</b></div>
</div>
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<b>APPRECIATION</b> <b>FOR</b> <b>THE</b> <b>TRUTH</b></div>
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Not all the persons I have known in the organization have maintained their appreciation for the truth. To illustrate this, I want to mention an experience I had while in the pilgrim service. I was in Philadelphia at the time, and, after I had given a talk, an elective elder who claimed to be a brother came up to me and said: “Brother Riemer, I got my <i>Watchtower</i> this morning. <u>The only reason I read that <i>Watchtower</i> is to find out what you fellows in Brooklyn are trying to put over on us.</u>” That was the spirit of some of the elective elders. They were causing splits in the congregations and in the work.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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Contrast this <i>improper</i> view with what would be a <i>proper</i> view of the Watchtower in the very next paragraph,</div>
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<b><b>***</b> <b>w64</b> <b>9/15</b> <b>p.</b> <b>574</b> <b>Experiencing</b> <b>Jehovah’s</b> <b>Love</b> <b>***</b></b></div>
</div>
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<b>In contrast to the attitude of these elective elders was that of an elderly couple with whom I stayed on the outskirts of Richmond, Virginia. The brother went down to get the mail before breakfast, and when we had breakfast he said, “Brother Riemer, I got a new <i>Watchtower</i> this morning, and do you know the first thing that Ma and I do when we get that <i>Tower?</i> <u>We kneel down before we take the wrapper off and ask Jehovah to make us worthy to see what the message is that Jehovah has for us.</u> Now, before we take the wrapper off, will you kneel down and pray with us?” How different that elective elder was from this humble couple who appreciated Jehovah’s organization!</b></div>
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<b></b><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">
</div>
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Is <i>Watchtower</i> literature simply "Bible study aids" or something more? What is your view of Watchtower literature? Does your attitude and behavior reflect the <i>improper</i> view or the <i>proper</i> view?</div>
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(ht: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiXrAz19lzw">21Crosscheck21</a>)</div>
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<br /></div>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-12557333293502970002011-11-15T21:06:00.001-05:002011-11-15T21:12:41.010-05:00Discussion with a JW on the eternal hope of ChristiansRecently, I had another discussion with a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/letusreason1234">Jehovah's Witness</a> on the eternal hope of Christians. The Watchtower teaches that there will be a literal group of 144,000 anointed Jehovah's Witnesses who rule with Christ in heaven over the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses who will live on a paradise earth. However, I believe in accordance with the Scriptures that all Christians will live forever on the new earth. <br />
<br />
You can watch the interaction <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PET6a6_9mZE&feature=channel_video_title">HERE</a><br />
<br />
You can listen to the interaction <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7264672/Discussion%20with%20Letusreason.mp3">HERE</a><br />
<br />
Lord willing, we will be having more interactions like these in the near future. <br />
<br />
<br />Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-82378879732435425572011-10-23T14:04:00.000-04:002011-10-23T14:07:51.096-04:00Correcting a miscitation from my interaction with the JWI finally got around to listening to the <a href="http://www.theapologeticfront.com/2011/10/discussion-with-jehovahs-witness.html">INTERACTION</a> I had with the JW from the other day and was overall pleased with how it went. I won't go into reviewing or offering much critique in this post as I would like the viewers to decide for themselves (at least for now anyway). <br />
<br />
But I did notice a blunder I made at about 41:30 where I attempted a paraphrase of the following quote:<br />
<blockquote>
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*** w57 5/1 p. 284 par. 14
Trust Your Proved, Faithful Brothers ***<o:p></o:p></div>
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Showing respect for Jehovah’s organization really resolves
itself down to our attitude toward God’s visible channel and the trust that we
place in our proved, faithful brothers. If we have become thoroughly
convinced that this is Jehovah’s organization, that he is guiding and
directing his people, then we shall not be unsettled by anything that
happens. If something comes up that we do not understand we will wait
patiently until it is made thoroughly clear to us. If we feel sure
something is wrong we will ‘keep the commandment’ of our Father and take
whatever theocratic steps are open to us and then wait on Jehovah. We will
not ‘forsake our mother’s teaching’ by immediately beginning to criticize and
find fault. We will realize that Jehovah knows what is going on in his
organization, and if he is willing to permit it, who are we to insist it should
be different? <b>If we really have faith, we will know that if it is wrong he will
straighten it out eventually</b>, and we are far safer inside his organization even
with these minor difficulties than we would be on the outside where only chaos
and destruction await us.</div>
</blockquote>
What I paraphrased went something as follows: "If we come to believe that something the Watchtower teaches is false, then we should just believe what they say anyway." Of course, the part in <b>bold</b> contradicts this and is consistent with what my JW friend said whereby one should keep quite about it and let Jehovah straighten it out. While I think that there are still some significant theological and psychological disagreements that I have with the above, I didn't represent it accurately. <br />
<br />
<i>However</i>, i'm kicking myself now because there <i>is</i> a quote that appears to be consistent with what I paraphrased that I wish I would have used:<br />
<blockquote>
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<span style="color: black;">*** w52 2/1 pp. 79-80 pars. 11-12 Jehovah’s
Theocratic Organization Today ***<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: black;">We must show our understanding in these matters,
appreciating our relationship to the visible theocratic organization,
remembering the fate of those like Korah and Achan and Saul and Uzziah and
others who forgot the theocratic order. Are we assigned as individuals to bring
forth the food for the spiritual table? No? Then let us not try to take over
the slave’s duties. We should eat and digest and assimilate what is set
before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit
the fancy of our mental taste. The truths we are to publish are the ones
provided through the discreet-slave organization, not some personal opinions
contrary to what the slave has provided as timely food. Jehovah and Christ
direct and correct the slave as needed, not we as individuals. If we do not
see a point at first we should keep trying to grasp it, rather than
opposing and rejecting it and presumptuously taking the position that we are
more likely to be right than the discreet slave. We should meekly go along with
the Lord’s theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather
than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to
quibble and mouth our criticisms and opinions as though they were worth more
than the slave’s provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate
the Lord’s visible organization and not be so foolish as to pit against
Jehovah’s channel their own human reasoning and sentiment and personal feelings.</span> </div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
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<span style="color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: black;">12 Now some may ask, Should we accept as from
the Lord and true the food provided through the discreet slave, or should we
withhold acceptance until we have proved it for ourselves? If we have
gained our present understanding of the Bible by feeding at the table set by
the slave, if we have been thereby freed from false doctrines and built up in
the clean and undefiled worship of God and given a new world hope, we should
have some confidence in the slave’s provisions. After being nourished to
our present spiritual strength and maturity, do we suddenly become smarter than
our former provider and forsake the enlightening guidance of the organization
that mothered us? “Forsake not the law of thy mother.” (Prov. 6:20-23) And if
the heavenly Father would not give a stone or serpent or scorpion to a child
who asked for bread or fish or an egg from him, are we to take the spiritual
food he provides through the slave into our hands as if we were going to be
bruised by a stone or bitten by a serpent or stung by a scorpion? (Matt.
7:7-11; Luke 11:9-13, NW) Are we to be doubtful and suspicious about each new
provision? “He who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and
blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything
from Jehovah.” (Jas. 1:6, 7, NW) Even the Beroeans first received Paul’s
preaching “with the greatest readiness of mind”, and then went to “carefully
examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so”. (Acts
17:11, NW) This was the first real contact the Beroeans had with Paul’s
preaching, yet they received it readily and then studied the Scriptural
support for themselves. How much more readily we can receive the slave’s
provisions with confidence, since, unlike the Beroeans, we have much past
experience with the precious provisions from the slave. After receiving these
food supplies we prove their Scripturalness for ourselves to make the message
our own, in a spirit of meekness and trustfulness and not combativeness.</span></div>
</blockquote>
Its difficult not to underline nearly every sentence in this quotation because I think this well illustrates the point I was trying to make. If a JW comes to question the correctness of something the WT teaches, what is he <i>expected </i>to do as a faithful JW? Hold silently to what he firmly believes as true? No. Instead, this one should "have some confidence in the slave's provisions," because we are <i>not</i>, "more likely to be right than the discreet slave." Therefore, "we should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification." <br />
<br />
Unless i'm missing something, the faithful JW is <i>expected</i> to go along with what the WT teaches, even if it questionable or something we feel is incorrect. After all, they're smarter than us, right?<br />
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<br /></div>
</blockquote>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com18tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-37319480582972331342011-10-23T00:30:00.000-04:002011-10-23T00:30:15.805-04:00Discussion with a Jehovah's Witness "WorldHistory2011" on Independent ThinkingJust last evening I had a most interesting encounter with a JW. But this wasn't just any encounter; it was recorded. It all started with the following comment on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkeoR4fs4q8&feature=channel_video_title">THIS VIDEO</a>:<br />
<br />
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<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
But was it a "complete lie?" Though my comment in 2:25 of that video was made in passing (the subject of the video was something different), I backed up my claim by referencing the following Watchtower quotation:<br />
<blockquote>
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*** km 9/07 p. 3 Question Box ***<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoBodyText2">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoBodyText2">
Does “the faithful and discreet slave” endorse
independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural
research or debate?—Matt. 24:45, 47.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a
few associates of our organization have formed groups to do independent
research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group
study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the New
World Translation. Others explore scientific subjects related to the Bible.
They have created Web sites and chat rooms for the purpose of exchanging and
debating their views. They have also held conferences and produced publications
to present their findings and to supplement what is provided at our Christian
meetings and through our literature...<span style="color: black; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> Thus, “the faithful and discreet slave” <u>does not endorse any
literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its
oversight.</u></span> </div>
</blockquote>
What transpired was a 45 minute discussion with <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/worldhistory2011">WorldHistory2011</a>. <br />
<br />
Go <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbzMVCk-xqU">HERE</a> to watch the encounter. <br />
<br />
Go <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7264672/JW%20discussion%20Independent%20Thinking.mp3">HERE</a> to listen to the encounter.Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-50048404298053043732011-10-21T21:20:00.002-04:002011-10-21T21:23:40.937-04:00The 144,000 rule over..."the Bible does not say," says the Watchtower<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjWvDmTqol3ICGd1fQdb562ykOejGF8Eu4QddwkF3TWaGExFkYclxSGBuIxaeVD3XHfGGhMuBI5UQlKuktG34WL1sjSNH5vNpqStqkSF0xVIxKdOidANcUwucvtB-oOXh1l6xTP/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-10-15+at+9.06.44+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjWvDmTqol3ICGd1fQdb562ykOejGF8Eu4QddwkF3TWaGExFkYclxSGBuIxaeVD3XHfGGhMuBI5UQlKuktG34WL1sjSNH5vNpqStqkSF0xVIxKdOidANcUwucvtB-oOXh1l6xTP/s200/Screen+shot+2011-10-15+at+9.06.44+PM.png" width="151" /></a></div>
In the <a href="http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/w_E_20120115.pdf">January 15, 2012 Watchtower Study Edition</a>, p. 30 par. 18, the following is stated,<br />
<blockquote>
<div style="font: 10.6px Times; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<span style="font: normal normal normal 7px/normal Helvetica;">18 </span>Thereafter, how will Jehovah use these highly privileged associates of Christ? According to Revelation 22:5, “they will rule as kings forever and ever.” <u>Over whom? The Bible does not say</u>. But the quality of life that they possess and their experience in helping a world of imperfect people will equip them to hold a regal position in Jehovah’s purposes forever.</div>
</blockquote>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: inherit;">I found this to be an noteworthy admission for several reasons. But first, it must be emphasized that the above quote is not necessarily new, for the Watchtower has previously articulated a similar point,</span><br />
<blockquote>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>***</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>re</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>chap.</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>43</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>p.</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>313</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>par.</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>30</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>The</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>Resplendent</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>City</b></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px;"><b>***</b></span></blockquote>
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; text-indent: 14.4px;">
<sup>30</sup> John closes out this magnificent vision by saying of these slaves of God: <b><i>“And</i></b> <b><i>they</i></b> <b><i>will</i></b> <b><i>rule</i></b> <b><i>as</i></b> <b><i>kings</i></b> <b><i>forever</i></b> <b><i>and</i></b> <b><i>ever.”</i></b> <b>(<i>Revelation</i></b> <b><i>22:5b</i>)</b> True, at the end of the thousand years, the benefits of the ransom will have been applied to completion, and Jesus will present a perfected human race to his Father. (1 Corinthians 15:25-28) <u>What Jehovah has in mind for Jesus and the 144,000 after that, we do not know</u>. But Revelation assures us that their privileged sacred service to Jehovah will continue into all eternity.</div>
<div style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 14.0px;">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: HellasTimes2; font-size: small;"><br /></span></div>
<div style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 14.0px;">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: small;">The reason I have found this to be noteworthy is because of a commonly used argument by Jehovah's Witnesses in defending the "two-class theology." For example,</span><br />
<blockquote>
<b></b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b><b>***</b> <b>rs</b> <b>p.</b> <b>79</b> <b>Born</b> <b>Again</b> <b>***</b></b></div>
<b>
</b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; text-align: center;">
<b><b>If</b> <b>Someone</b> <b>Says—</b></b></div>
<b>
</b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b><b>‘I’ve</b> <b>been</b> <b>born</b> <b>again’</b></b></div>
<b>
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; text-indent: 14.4px;">
<b>You</b> <b>might</b> <b>reply:</b> ‘That means that you expect someday to be with Christ in heaven, doesn’t it? . . . Have you ever wondered what those who go to heaven will do there?’ <b>Then</b> <b>perhaps</b> <b>add:</b> (1) ‘They will be kings and priests, ruling with Christ. (Rev. 20:6; 5:9, 10) Jesus said that these would be just a “little flock.” (Luke 12:32)’ (2) <u>‘If they are kings, there must also be subjects over whom they will rule.</u> Who will these be? . . . Here are some points that I found to be very interesting when they were drawn to my attention. (Ps. 37:11, 29; Prov. 2:21, 22)’</div>
</b></blockquote>
<div style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 14.0px;">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: small;">In other words, if there are rulers then there must be subjects. Who are the rulers and who are the subjects?</span></div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b></b></div>
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b><b>***</b> <b>w75</b> <b>1/1</b> <b>p.</b> <b>21</b> <b>par.</b> <b>7</b> <b>Appreciating</b> <b>the</b> <b>Things</b> <b>of</b> <b>God</b> <b>***</b></b></div>
<b>
</b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; text-indent: 14.4px;">
<b>The Scriptures show that those who would be joint heirs with Christ in his kingdom and who would rule with him for a thousand years would be 144,000 in number, and that on earth there would be an unnumbered “great crowd” that would prove themselves loyal subjects of that kingdom.—Rev. 7:4-10; 14:3-5; 20:6.</b></div>
<b>
</b></blockquote>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: small;">But is this "great crowd" meant to be subject to the 144,000 for all eternity? The above quote from the January 15, 2012 issue as well as the "Revelation book" (abbreviated "re" above) indicate that the Watchtower is not sure because "the Bible does not say." </span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><br /></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">So what effect does the rulers/subject argument really have if the Bible doesn't tell us who these kings rule over? Does this mean that non-JW apologists are no longer obliged to answer this argument? </span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: small;"><br /></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: small;">Some might be interested to read how some JW's have responded to this</span> <a href="http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/T4DPSJIP5SIHSHHF8">HERE</a>.<br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: HellasTimes2; font-size: small;"> </span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-27200145840806035152011-09-11T14:53:00.000-04:002011-09-11T14:55:06.509-04:00Watchtower issue: to join or not to join an organization?<br />
<blockquote>
<b></b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b><b>***</b> <b>w53</b> <b>3/1</b> <b>p.</b> <b>143</b> <b>par.</b> <b>12</b> <b>Integrity</b> <b>Leads</b> <b>to</b> <b>Life</b> <b>***</b></b></div>
<b>
</b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; text-indent: 14.4px;">
<b>We must seek to be genuine Christians in every sense of the word. Does that mean we have to join a church organization in Christendom? Ask yourself now, Did Christ Jesus, who set our example and told us to follow his example to gain life, <u>join any church organization in his day? No, God does not require us to do that</u>; but he requires us to worship him, to preach the good news of the Kingdom, to be Christians, to follow the example Jesus set, living in unalterable devotion to Jehovah God; to praise God and respect his supremacy, to resist all efforts to turn us from decency and to endure in faith. We have the Bible to show us the right way. <u>Certainly it is not necessary for a person to become a member of a church to gain everlasting life</u>.—John 3:16-18; 17:3.</b></div>
<b>
</b></blockquote>
But this is just talking about joining a "church" right? Certainly, to be a true Christian one must <i>join</i> the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, right?<br />
<br />
Consider the April 22, 1957 <i>Awake!</i> magazine (published by the Watchtower) on p. 12:<br />
<br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhN9rF9c1v0pn2f0M6Ad2ee88v5OrQTqvPrUqvDW4BMexsHVelS0RN9HoYWv4eUig-9ClaflJy3iAcLUAWAW4vkeJ56ArDIhkN4BOhGs2QYFaDpnly_Wo6X_Ch1-6wXWz0-awgi/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-09-11+at+2.18.46+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="274" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhN9rF9c1v0pn2f0M6Ad2ee88v5OrQTqvPrUqvDW4BMexsHVelS0RN9HoYWv4eUig-9ClaflJy3iAcLUAWAW4vkeJ56ArDIhkN4BOhGs2QYFaDpnly_Wo6X_Ch1-6wXWz0-awgi/s320/Screen+shot+2011-09-11+at+2.18.46+PM.png" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
This would seem to be consistent with the 1953 Watchtower quoted above. But what about one's dedication to the organization? <br />
<blockquote>
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b>***</b> <b>bh</b> <b>chap.</b> <b>18</b> <b>p.</b> <b>183</b> <b>par.</b> <b>24</b> <b>Baptism</b> <b>and</b> <b>Your</b> <b>Relationship</b> <b>With</b> <b>God</b> <b>***</b></div>
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Remember, too, that you have made a <u>dedication to Jehovah God himself</u>, <u>not to</u> a work, a cause, other humans, or <u>an organization</u>. Your dedication and baptism are the beginning of a very close friendship with God—an intimate relationship with him.—Psalm 25:14.</div>
</blockquote>
But when one becomes one of Jehovah's Witnesses, where must his dedication and loyalty be?<br />
<blockquote>
<b></b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b><b>***</b> <b>w65</b> <b>7/1</b> <b>p.</b> <b>412</b> <b>Faithful</b> <b>and</b> <b>Loyal</b> <b>to</b> <b>God’s</b> <b>Organization</b> <b>***</b></b></div>
<b>
</b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; text-indent: 14.4px;">
<b>Jehovah God being The loyal One, it is but fitting that he should require loyalty of us. (Rev. 15:4) However, <u>we cannot be loyal to God without being loyal to his visible earthly organization</u>, the “faithful and discreet slave,” and the local Christian congregation which represents that “slave.”</b></div>
<b>
</b></blockquote>
If one isn't loyal to the Governing Body, then one isn't being loyal to God. And just in case this isn't clear, the Governing Body teaches that one's loyalty to them must be absolute and unquestionable.<br />
<blockquote>
<b></b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b><b>***</b> <b>w10</b> <b>9/15</b> <b>p.</b> <b>23</b> <b>par.</b> <b>8</b> <b>“Your</b> <b>Leader</b> <b>Is</b> <b>One,</b> <b>the</b> <b>Christ”</b> <b>***</b></b></div>
<b>
</b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; text-indent: 14.4px;">
<b>The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ.</b></div>
<b>
</b></blockquote>
There you have it. If you aren't following the Governing Body, you aren't following Christ. Would anyone agree that there appears to be some dissonance between the quotes above? Perhaps some bait-and-switch for those newly "joining" the organization?<br />
<br />
(ht: <a href="http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/09/watchtower-bait-switch.html">Marvin Shilmer</a>)<br />
<br />Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-88039380988864949102011-09-05T18:45:00.000-04:002011-09-05T18:49:19.057-04:00What was expected to happen in 1914?<br />
<blockquote>
<b></b><br />
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;">
<b><b>***</b> <b>w89</b> <b>4/15</b> <b>pp.</b> <b>6-7</b> <b>par.</b> <b>8</b> <b>The</b> <b>Infamous</b> <b>Harlot—Her</b> <b>Fall</b> <b>***</b></b></div>
<b>
<div style="font: 10.0px Arial; margin: 6.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; text-indent: 14.4px;">
<sup>8</sup> For some 40 years the Bible Students boldly proclaimed that the year 1914 would mark the end of the Gentile Times. As expected, that year brought world-shaking events, not the least of these being the first world war. </div>
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<br /></div>
</b></blockquote>
One has to wonder how the Watchtower can portray their own history in this light. But then again, many JW's and non-JW's reading the literature may be unaware of its history of failed predictions. Therefore, such ones would see no reason to question these commendations. <br />
<br />
However, when one considers the nature of the <i>actual</i> predictions made pre-1914, it would be difficult to deny that such words are <i>not</i> an accurate portrayal. Some may even conclude that such a misrepresentation of pre-1914 predictions are nothing short of dishonest. <br />
<br />
Compare the above quotation to what was <i>really</i> said about 1914:<br />
<br />
<blockquote>
“The date of the close of that ‘battle’ is definitely marked
in Scripture as October, 1914. It is
already in progress, its beginning dating from October, 1874.” –<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Zion’s Watch Tower</i> Jan. 15, 1892 p. 22 </blockquote>
<blockquote>
“We see no reason for changing the figures—nor could we
change them if we would. They are, we
believe, God’s dates, not ours. But bear
in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">beginning</i>, but for the <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">end</i>
of the time of trouble. We see no reason
for changing from our opinion expressed in the View presented in the Watch
Tower of Jan. 15, ’92. We advise that it
be read again.” –<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Zion’s Watch Tower</i>,
July 15, 1894 p. 226 </blockquote>
<blockquote>
“True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that
within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown
and dissolved…In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the
Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the
kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will
be accomplished at the end of A.D. 1914.” –<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">The
Time is at Hand</i> (1908 ed.) p. 99 </blockquote>
<blockquote>
“Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we
present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that
it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D.
1878, and that due ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14),
which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present
rulership, is already commenced.” –<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Time
is at Hand</i> (1911 ed.) p. 101</blockquote>
<br />
It should be readily obvious to anyone that there was more going on than predictions <i>merely</i> about "world shaking events" and the "end of the gentile times." Thus, what happened in 1914 was<i> not </i>expected, contrary to what the Watchtower would have us believe according to the above quotation. On the contrary, what <i>was</i> expected was "the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership." <br />
<blockquote>
</blockquote>
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Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-12564091699183387482011-08-21T08:35:00.001-04:002011-08-21T08:36:41.846-04:00Another evangelical apologist advocating belief in the new earth.Hat tip to Jay Hess for advocating the biblical doctrine of the new earth. I hope more apologists will stop defending the idea that Christians will spend eternity in heaven, as this is not only unbiblical, but unproductive. I was also very surprised to see that Charles Stanley, one of the most prominent figures in evangelical circles, defend the doctrine of the new earth. So much for the belief of many JW's that they are the only ones believe in the new earth. <br />
<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/E2sAZwgMffQ" width="560"></iframe>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-9249181672931988202011-08-19T21:55:00.003-04:002011-08-20T16:57:09.241-04:00Who does John 6:68 apply to?<div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">One Watchtower apologist <a href="http://stayawake-standfirm.blogspot.com/2011/07/john-668-applicable-to-whom.html">thinks this applies to a non-profit printing organization located in Brooklyn, NY</a>. This is consistent with what the Watchtower themselves have stated:</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div><blockquote><b></b><br />
<div style="font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Arial; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; text-align: center;"><b><b>***</b> <b>w92</b> <b>11/15</b> <b>p.</b> <b>21</b> <b>Serve</b> <b>Jehovah</b> <b>Loyally</b> <b>***</b></b></div><br />
<div style="font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Arial; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 6px; text-align: center;"><b><b>Nowhere</b> <b>Else</b> <b>to</b> <b>Go</b></b></div><b></b><br />
<div style="font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Arial; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 6px; text-indent: 14.4px;"><b><sup>12</sup> <i>We</i> <i>will</i> <i>be</i> <i>impelled</i> <i>to</i> <i>serve</i> <i>Jehovah</i> <i>loyally</i> <i>with</i> <i>his</i> <i>organization</i> <i>if</i> <i>we</i> <i>remember</i> <i>that</i> <i>there</i> <i>is</i> <i>nowhere</i> <i>else</i> <i>to</i> <i>go</i> <i>for</i> <i>life</i> <i>eternal.</i> When Jesus’ statements caused ‘many disciples to go off to the things behind,’ he asked his apostles: “You do not want to go also, do you?” Peter replied: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.”—John 6:66-69.</b></div></blockquote><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">However, the Scriptures are very clear on who this text is applied to if context means anything:</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><blockquote><div style="font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Arial; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><b>(John</b> <b>6:66-71)</b> <b><sup>66</sup></b> Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. <b><sup>67</sup></b> Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: “YOU do not want to go also, do YOU?” <b><sup>68</sup></b> Simon Peter answered him: “<u>Lord, whom shall</u> <u>we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life</u>; <b><sup>69</sup></b> and we have believed and come to know that <u>you are the Holy One</u> <u>of God</u>.” <b><sup>70</sup></b> Jesus answered them: “I chose YOU twelve, did I not? Yet one of YOU is a slanderer.” <b><sup>71</sup></b> He was, in fact, speaking of Judas [the son] of Simon Is·car′i·ot; for this one was going to betray him, although one of the twelve.</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br />
</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: HellasTimes2; font-size: small;"></span></div></blockquote><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">Who did Peter have in mind when he uttered the question, "whom shall we go away to?" A printing organization that would not arise for another 2,000 years, or Jesus <i>Himself</i>? </div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">Watchtower apologists, such as <a href="http://stayawake-standfirm.blogspot.com/">StandFirm</a>, want to divert the issue by arguing issues related to ecclesiology and whether Christians should worship God <i>in opposition</i> to those whom Christ Himself appointed as apostles in the first century. But <i>even if</i> the Governing Body are who they claim to be, <i>John 6:68 is contextually applicable only to Jesus</i>. To apply it to seven fallible and error-prone men in Brooklyn, NY is nothing short of blasphemous. So why do Watchtower apologists defend the Watchtower such embarrassingly poor arguments like these? Because they must have absolute unquestionable submission to whatever is put in print by the Watchtower. </div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">But I didn't write this blog necessarily to refute one of the extremely few Watchtower apologists who write and dialogue on the internet; its to offer an argument that could prove useful for anyone who wishes to witness to a JW. Consider using John 6:68 in asking a JW who this text is applied to <i>in context</i>. This question alone could prove effecting in getting JW's to "examine the Scriptures to see if these things are so." (Acts 17:11) </div>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com19tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28227207.post-55522359613077007172011-07-31T14:41:00.000-04:002011-07-31T14:41:35.418-04:00My second appearance on the Theopologetics podcast discussing the JW's "two-class" theology.<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_BJRDmsaUOY0DwFoHIozutk-i69ufRzx1t4qXOTZWRoSu06KITM3wT4_Rl3fSXwhR8PUc1g9Dtf_mfgGROd2be8q4vveiqTRunq0AD5qBksQ2sKPcoacmeiWxlzRer1NBgem7/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-07-31+at+2.38.54+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_BJRDmsaUOY0DwFoHIozutk-i69ufRzx1t4qXOTZWRoSu06KITM3wT4_Rl3fSXwhR8PUc1g9Dtf_mfgGROd2be8q4vveiqTRunq0AD5qBksQ2sKPcoacmeiWxlzRer1NBgem7/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-07-31+at+2.38.54+PM.png" /></a></div>From the Theopologetics website:<br />
<br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://theopologetics.podbean.com/2011/07/19/episode-50-second-class-citizen/" style="color: #473624; text-decoration: underline;">Episode 50</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">of the Theopologetics Podcast is now available! Mike Felker from The Apologetic Front joins me once again to discuss the Jehovah's Witnesses, this time focusing in particular on their "two-class" doctrine of life in the eternal state. This episode contains part 1 of the interview; see</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://theopologetics.podbean.com/2011/07/19/episode-51-144000/" style="color: #473624; text-decoration: underline;">episode 51, "144,000,"</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #29303b; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">for part 2.</span>Mike Felkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01974482615713418707noreply@blogger.com6