Tuesday, June 29, 2010

"Giving an answer with gentleness and respect" to a Mormon

If you want to know what a profitable, respectful dialogue looks like between two completely contrasting worldviews, this is a perfect example:

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

What a concept, going out to the people to talk about your beliefs! If only real Christians did that. Oh wait, JW's do. All of them.

Mike Felker said...

The difference is, Christians like myself don't count our hours, turn in time cards, and then brag about it.

Anonymous said...

Haha Mike. Counting time is all about keeping records as to how many hours used in preaching. I don't tell anyone how many hours I have each month and I don't count inter-net 'preaching' like this.

The reality is, the 'christians' you speak of in general avoid discussions at all costs. Very few actually have a knowledge in which they feel comfortable proclaiming their faith. Sad but true.

Mark Hunter said...

The reality is, Jehovah's Witnesses preach a false gospel. So, they may spend millions or billions of hours per year (all carefully recorded and catalogued and then boastfully printed in books and magazines and announced from platforms around the world) preaching, but it's the content of what they preach that matters.

Mormons spend millions of hours per preaching a false gospel. And lo, they see better "results" than JWs!

Matthew 24: 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Jehovah's Witnesses boast accurate knowledge of God. The truth is, the Governing Body actively prevents them from getting to know God as their Father, ring fencing Jehovah as the benefactor and Father of 144,000 alone. This is a false teaching not found in the Bible, and as a result, makes the "worldwide preaching campaign" of Jehovah's Witnesses null and void.

Oh, and God isn't interested in our religious works; he won't give us salvation as a commensurate result of them.

I as a Christian, however, know God as my heavenly Father.

There's a difference.

俊坤戴 said...

在莫非定律中有項笨蛋定律:「一個組織中的笨蛋,恆大於等於三分之二。」......................................................................

銘木 said...

河水永遠是相同的,可是每一剎那又都是新的。......................................................................

Anonymous said...

Mark Hunter, you said that
"Mormons spend millions of hours per preaching a false gospel. And lo, they see better "results" than JWs!"

Not too sure what you consider results. The JW life is far more disciplined than the Mormon life. Infact, Mormon's, though different than most 'christians', are more like them than JW's. They go to war, celebrate holidays, believe in a triune god (yes I know it's different than the way you see your triune god).

The one similarity is that their teenage missionary elders preach for what, two years? So they preach for two years and they are just like JW's and that's why all of your apologetic buddies keep bringing them up.

In John 17:1-3 Jesus identifies his Father as the only true God. I'll stick with what Jesus taught.

Anonymous said...

Mark Hunter, you said that
"Mormons spend millions of hours per preaching a false gospel. And lo, they see better "results" than JWs!"

Not too sure what you consider results. The JW life is far more disciplined than the Mormon life. Infact, Mormon's, though different than most 'christians', are more like them than JW's. They go to war, celebrate holidays, believe in a triune god (yes I know it's different than the way you see your triune god).

The one similarity is that their teenage missionary elders preach for what, two years? So they preach for two years and they are just like JW's and that's why all of your apologetic buddies keep bringing them up.

In John 17:1-3 Jesus identifies his Father as the only true God. I'll stick with what Jesus taught.

Mike Felker said...

Anonymous, do you also believe, like John 17:3 says, to "know the Father and Jesus" is to have eternal life? Do you know Jesus in the same way that you know the Father? And in doing so, do you honor Jesus in the same way that you honor the Father? (John 5:23)

Anonymous said...

I not only know Jesus, I obey him. (John 14:12)

I do honor Christ. I pray in Jesus name. However, I only worship Jehovah, the only Almighty God.(Ps 90:2; John 14:28; 1 Cor. 11:3)

Mike Felker said...

Anonymous, doesn't knowing someone imply that you have a personal relationship with them? Wouldn't this mean talking to them?

Anonymous said...

That's an interesting point. But I don't believe I can 'talk' to Jesus, nor do I try. I know Jesus as a person, what he feels on certain issues and the qualities has that I try to follow. By doing such I am drawn closer to the Father since Jesus imitated him. (Heb 1:3)

I think I can say I know the Apostle Paul, but I don't try to talk with him either. He laid his whole life out there for us to read about. His moments of glory and his mistakes.

Mike Felker said...

Wouldn't it be a little deceptive of me to say that "I know president Obama," when i've never met the guy? Anyone can read biographies of him, but that doesn't mean we know him.

Furthermore, in John 17:3, do you really think that's just talking about raw knowledge with regards to the Father? If not, and it means having relationship with, then doesn't that not transfer to the Son, especially since we are to honor Him as we honor the Father?

Mark Hunter said...

"In John 17:1-3 Jesus identifies his Father as the only true God. I'll stick with what Jesus taught."

Then best not go after people who claim the "due time has approached".

Also, better start honour Jesus just as you honour the Father.

I notice you still haven't given me your take on this, ie. John 5:22,23. You see, either you stick with EVERYTHING Jesus taught, or you just pick and choose the bits the Governing Body say you've to stick to.

Mark Hunter said...

"I do honor Christ. I pray in Jesus name. However, I only worship Jehovah, the only Almighty God.(Ps 90:2; John 14:28; 1 Cor. 11:3)"

But Jesus said he's to be honoured just as the Father is honoured. In fact, if you don't give Jesus that honour, you're not honouring the one who sent him; in other words, you can't actually give Jesus too much honour.

So, how do you give Jesus the same honour as you give the Father?

Would you say, when you've meditated on John 5:22,23, that simply praying in Jesus's name is giving him the same honour as you give to the Father?

Does the idea of honouring Jesus in an equatable way with the Father make you feel uncomfortable? How far would you go in your honour of Jesus? Would you go as far as every creature in heaven,
earth, the elders and the four living creatures?

Revelation 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!" 14The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.


Maybe it's time to stop paying lips service to Jesus, maybe it's time to stop surrounding yourself with "righteous works", statistics, printing presses and conventions and start getting on your knees before the risen King?


Also, you say you only worship the Almighty God. When Jesus is called God in Isaiah 6:9 and John 20:28, does this mean that Jesus is a false god? If so, how can we trust anything he says?