Sunday, November 27, 2011

2nd discussion with JW "Letusreason1234" on the eternal hope of Christians

Like our FIRST DISCUSSION, this one will continue along the same lines in contrasting the Jehovah's Witness view with what I believe to be the biblical view of all Christians living forever on the new earth.

You can watch the discussion HERE

You can listen to the discussion HERE


Anonymous said...

Science provides its own answer to an act that will result in life to infinity on a paradise Earth. Is this possible?

(1) Not on the basis that because of the second law of thermodynamics which tells us that infinity for any material body is not possible and:

(2) With the Andromeda Galaxy heading for us, the destruction of the Earth will happen one day and:

(3) Our sun will ultimately go Supernova as can be witnessed even now in our night skies.

Tell me, how do we overcome these problems to believe the doctrine of an eternal paradise Earth?

Kyle said...

We live in a fallen universe . When Adam chose independence from God for himself and his descendants , our universe was plunged into chaos and disorder, all the physical laws that where once perfect and harmonious fell apart and the universe , including our world began its decent into death and destruction.

That is why Paul writes at Romans 8 : 19-20 "19For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. 20Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, 21the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay."....

Through the Church , those called during the Gospel Age , God will ultimately restore our universe to perfection , including our fallen world and provide all of mankind the opportunity to receive eternal life through his Son - the second Adam . 1 Corinthians 15:45-48

Anonymous said...

Hi Kyle.

I find it hard enough to understand the ethic that 6,000 years of human agony and futility could be visited upon Earth's inhabitants by a single act of disobedience, let alone that the entire universe was created to stand for fall by the dictates and actions of mankind who live, as Douglas Adams put it in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "on a tiny blue-green planet somewhere at the spiral end of an unfashionable end of a galaxy."

Interestingly, the Scriptures you quote seem only to be applied to human creation who ONLY sinned against God (though Satan's rebellion was heavenly, surely the universe wasn't subject to his actions).

The New International Version at states: "The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

Other translations confirm this.

Your view certainly is solipsistic - the view that humans are at the centre of the universe.

Try applying Occam's Razor (the law that the simplest answer to a complex question is nearly always the correct one) to what you have said.

Did the Universe sin?

Did the Earth sin?

Or is it most likely that infinity is simply not a property of the universe?

Kyle said...

@Anon, perhaps the house of cards analogy , best describes what happened.

Anonymous said...

Hi Kyle. Who is building the House of Cards? If it's me, please tell me why, I'd like to know.

Anonymous said...

Kyle, I'm still waiting for your explanation of how human affairs have fatally-affected the physical state of the universe. Does Romans 8 explain it?

Is this a good enough explanation of the issue:

"Context of Romans 8

The book of Romans is the great book of Christian theology written to the Roman believers by Paul, the apostle. The eighth chapter discusses the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. This chapter discusses the role of the Spirit in setting believers free from the law to serve God through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It compares the actions of the one indwelt with the Spirit to one in whom the Spirit does not live. In looking at the overall context, one would have to ask why Paul would interject an allegorical passage about the creation in a chapter that is otherwise devoted solely to a discussion of the role of the Spirit in the life of believers versus unbelievers. Therefore, the overall context of the chapter suggests that Paul was not talking about the non-rational creation."