A very useful debate on Oneness Christology

Recently, on the THEOPOLOGETICS PODCAST, Michael Burgos (Trinitarian) debated James Anderson (Oneness) on the topic: "The Son personally preexisted the incarnation with the Father."  I must say, this is probably the most useful debate i've heard on this topic.  As a matter of fact, I don't think i've ever heard a Christological debate with a topic this focused.  Usually, its just "Trinity vs. Oneness" or something along those lines.

Of course, some of my readers will disagree with the theological perspectives of both proponents.  However, I think this is a debate that anyone can learn a great deal from. Both men were very well prepared and debated in a cordial fashion.  Therefore, I feel that both positions were more than adequately contrasted.

You can download PART 1 and PART 2.

You can listen to some post-debate discussion between Chris Date (the host) and Michael Burgos HERE and HERE

Interview with Greg Stafford

Greg Stafford is a Jehovah's Witness who is no longer associated with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.  He has written SEVERAL BOOKS which both defend and criticize particular elements of the Watchtower Society.  The fact that Stafford is so critical of the organization, yet holds to many of its core doctrines, make him quite an interesting and unique apologist.

Recently, Stafford was interviewed by the SIX SCREENS OF THE WATCHTOWER TELENETWORK with regards to his stance on many issues.  Regardless of what you think of Stafford, if you are interested in Jehovah's Witnesses, you should find this interview interesting.  And yes, you'll hear his arguments against the Trinity and other doctrines held by "Christendom."  But you'll also hear his criticisms against the Watchtower Society and why he left.  On that end, any faithful JW in association with the Watchtower will be obliged to view him as an apostate and treated accordingly.  But I do hope that those same JW's will give this interview a chance and perhaps learn something new.

The interview was very disorganized and distracting, as it was held in a conference call format with many honing in to ask questions.  The interview starts at about 20 minutes in, but the full mp3 file is almost 6 hours long.  I haven't gotten through the whole thing, but I doubt Stafford was on the whole time.

If anyone has any thoughts, i'd be very interested in hearing them.  You can download or listen to the mp3 HERE.

Richard Bauckham on ontological, functional, and Trinitarian Christology

"The distinction commonly made between "functional" and "ontic" Christology has been, broadly, between early Christology in a Jewish context and patristic Christology which applied Greek philosophical categories of divine nature to Christ. Even when ontic Christology is seen to begin well within the confines of the New Testament, it is seen as the beginnings of the patristic attribution of divine nature to Christ. The assumption usually is that, whereas first-century Jewish monotheists could attribute divine "functions" to Jesus without difficulty since this would not infringe Jewish monotheism, they could not easily attribute divine "nature" to him without raising difficult issues for monotheism with which only later Trinitarian developments could cope (successfully or not). However, this is to misconstrue Jewish monotheism in Hellenistic terms as though it were primarily concerned with what divinity is-divine nature-rather than who YHWH, the unique God, is-divine identity. The whole category of divine identity and Jesus' inclusion in it has been fundamentally obscured by the alternative of "functional" and "ontic," understood to mean that either Christology speaks simply of what Jesus does or else it speaks of his divine nature. Once the category of divine identity replaces those of function and nature as the primary and comprehensive category for understanding both Jewish monotheism and early Christology, we can see that the New Testament's lack of concern with the divine nature of Christ is by no means an indication of a merely functional Christology. We can see that, throughout the New Testament texts, there is a clear and deliberate use of these characteristics of the unique divine identity to include Jesus in that identity. Once we have rid ourselves of the prejudice that high Christology must speak of Christ's divine nature, we can see the obvious fact that the Christology of divine identity common to the whole New Testament is the highest Christology of all. It identifies Jesus as intrinsic to who God is.

-Jesus and the God of Israel, p. 31

Did John Calvin really put Servedus to death for denying the Trinity?

I'm not the type that is really keen on following men. Furthermore, i'm not too big on defining my Scriptural positions by identifying myself with a man. However, I think we can all benefit from what men of old have researched, regardless of how good or bad they were as people. I would consider John Calvin to be one of these men. It would be difficult to imagine how, given any theological position, one could not learn from such works as the Institutes of the Christian Religion. Nonetheless, for years it has been argued that not only was Calvin a sorry excuse for a human being, but we shouldn't seek to learn from such a man. All of this for the fact that he had the Trinity-denying Michael Servedus burned at the stake.

In the vast, vast majority of instances in which Servedus is brought up (as if this would ever have any bearing on whether my theological position is true or false), you only hear one part of the story: Calvin killed Servedus. And that's it.

Say what you will about John Calvin. Think of him as the worst human being in history. Honestly, I could care less what one thinks about Calvin. But please consider all of the facts before coming to the conclusion that every Christian should throw the Institutes in the fireplace.

In THIS CLIP, James White provides the facts that are often left out.

(ht: James Swan)

Discussion/debate with a non-Trinitarian

The topic for discussion is "The Trinity". The question is: Are
the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all one God? Our guests are
Patrick Navas, author of the book "Divine Truth or Human
Tradition, 'A Reconsideration of the Roman Catholic-Protestant
Doctrine of the Trinity in Light of the Hebrew and Christian
Scriptures". In defense of the Trinity is Brian Garcia, former
Jehovah's Witness apologist and now Christian apologist.

I thought this was a good discussion for the most part. But towards the end it got difficult to listen to when people started calling in. However, these types of conversations are very rare, so if you are interested in hearing both sides of this issue, i'd recommend this.

You can listen to the full audio HERE

Adnan Rashid vs. James White - Trinity and Shirk

This was a very interesting debate on a pretty unique proposition. "Shirk" is a word in Islam that conveys the highest form of idolatry and damns any violator to hell. I found it pretty interesting that James White sought to defend the belief that the Trinity doesn't violate the Koranic understanding of "Shirk." Of course, the Muslim disagrees. See for yourself. This was an excellent debate featuring clear presentations from both sides!

Muslim and Christian dialogue on the Trinity

Its a rare thing when these kinds of dialogues take place without either side being rude, obnoxious, or interruptive. I found the Muslim, Abdullah al-Andalusi, to be respectful and articulate (which seems to be a rarity with Muslim apologists). So I just wanted to commend this discussion to you all. It took place recently in London by a radio station titled, Unbelievable.